I want to have a discussion, because I’m curious what people think. My friend Alissa posted this article about the Campbell family who couldn’t get a cake made for them, because the name on the cake would have been.. Adolf Hitler.
The names of their other children are JoyceLynn Aryan Nation and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie.
Instinctively I am repulsed by the idea and categorically write off the parents as ignorant, racist jackholes – which, let’s be honest, I’m guessing is a safe bet. (I mean, at least super-educated racist jackholes are aware enough to be a bit more secretive about their mind-warping views, right? They find more insidious infiltrative tactics, surely.)
Anyway, obviously my blood pressure rises when I think about what kind of life they are creating for those innocent kids; what kind of lifelong damage they could be creating just by naming them like that. On the other hand, I know how many people feel about me and my views on vaccines, so that’s a flipside I’m on. And this all leads me to wonder where the line is between respecting people’s belief whether you agree with them or not, versus unabashed judgment or disapproval.
[Does that make any sense? I might need more coffee to communicate effectively today..]
Basically, I’m wondering where the societal acceptance/civil liberty line is drawn, solely when discussing PC protection. Should we get to use emotion as a barometer? I mean.. hmm.. Ok: The average ambiguity toward the concept of disciplining children by spanking disappears completely when you can definitively call it child abuse, right? People agree on that. There is an acceptable emotional response to child abuse that no one realistically can dispute.
SO I GUESS I’m just wondering if I should be trying to be mature in acknowledging they have the right to their views, and get over my emotional response (as I ask people to do for my unpopular views), or if I’m validated in my repulsion, because who in the hell would name their child after a bastard like Hitler?!
So yeah. Do you think that’s subjective or impossible to define? Whatchoo think – about this or other issues that press your buttons under the PC umbrella?
PLEASE TO WAX PHILOSOPHICAL OR LEAVE COMMENT BELOW THANK YOU.
Huzzah! 
22 comments
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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Anonymous
The comment on that link was great: “No one puts the full name on their kids cake anyways!” These people were just being arrogant by putting Adolf Hitler on the cake. Rediculous.
I do feel bad for those kids, but they are in Holland, maybe there are more people like them over there and their kids can play with each other. Ha… funny, but not really.
Wednesday, December 17, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Brandi
Oh, I though you meant Holland the country, which made me think there’s no fucking way those names are legal there. But apparently Holland’s a county, too. Poor kids. Seriously.
Sorry, no tolerance from me on this one. You’re not even allowed to name kids Adolf here. Those kids are either going to end up going down American History X style, or they are going to hate their parents and change their names. Oh, and they will never be able to visit any part of Western Europe or Israel.
And not vaccinating your kids and naming your kids after one of the most horrendous dictators of the 20th century are two different things. So, yes, be enraged. Seriously, how do people like that manage to reproduce?
Wednesday, December 17, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Anonymous
The baker could have always simply “typoed” the name and written “Elie Wiesel” or “Anne Frank” instead.
Or, hell, “Sophie Scholl”
The 3 year old can’t read the name anyways. She gets cake and the baker gets their point across.
Wednesday, December 17, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Alissa
Woo(t)! I made the blog! I think I should take up coffee drinking because you are making several good points that I couldn’t quite put into words. In my mind I think they live in some southern state, but I don’t know which one.
And…I don’t know about where to draw the line. See I know and agree that there are valid scientifically proven reasons for us to not vaccinate, but I also think there is concrete evidence that Hitler was a serious shithead. A lot of people would disagree with me on the first point, and some losers like those “parents” would disagree with me on the second one.
But you know, my alternative parenting choices (that I feel are beneficial) are for my family and although I’m not secretive, I don’t do stupid shit so I can get my mulleted unwashed self some publicity to show off my offensive lifestyle. This guy does. And he’s getting all the attention he wanted by us talking about the poor kid. I wonder if he gets a goody bag from the Grand Wizard for making the news?
Wednesday, December 17, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Jaime P.
“I wonder if he gets a goody bag from the Grand Wizard for making the news?”
haha! Yeah really. I agree that these kids will have a hard road ahead of them, sadly.
Wednesday, December 17, 2008 at 9:51 pm
SS
If you don’t Vax your kids, the absolute worst that could happen is they get a disease. Adolf Hitler killed millions of people. The Aryan Nation is a racist organization that preaches hate and would cause harm and even kill those who LOOK different from them. The differences are staggering.
That being said. The parents have the right to name their kids whatever they want. Freedom of speech is as amazing as it is lame sometimes, and it means you have to accept that some parents are going to teach their kids stupid and evil things and probably turn them into racist idiots. A lot of parents in this country are teaching their kids that my family and I are going to hell because we don’t believe in a guy that died 2000 years ago. Kids are taught crazy stuff all the time, you can’t legislate what beliefs parents give their kids.
That being said, the kids should be taken and the parents shot. Cause well, they’re wasting my oxygen.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 12:41 am
Brandi
Yeah, SS, but how is naming your kid Hitler freedom of speech? For me, this is clearly a case of one person’s rights encroaching on those of another. I mean, if someone shoots off your leg, you can’t just shurg and say, “Well, there is the right to bear arms.”
If they want to run around in Nazi uniforms and tastefully decorate their home with only the finest items from Naziery Barn, then fine. But they might as well have tattooed a swastika on that poor kid’s forehead. And you can’t tell me that that’s what freedom of speech intended.
But maybe I see it this way because I live in Germany, where you can’t name your kid whatever the fuck you want. And where Nazi paraphernalia is illegal.
And what parents teach their kids is their thing, totally. But like I said, this kid has to cart those beliefs around with him, out in the open, every day for the rest of his life. These parents are using that kid as a tool. And I have to say, being atheist and being a Hitler fan are also two different thing. For me, anyway.
So, I’ll just toddle off and give birth now.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 8:00 am
SS
Brandi, I agree a Hitler fan is worse than an atheist (which I find nothing wrong with at all), and yes, the parents are using the child as a tool… but you can’t legislate what parents name kids. Well, maybe in Germany they can, but they did exterminate millions of people so we’ll let them do their thing. But seriously if you start saying you can’t name people X, where do you draw the line? Francisco Coronado exterminated native Mexicans, Joseph Stalin killed more innocent people than Hitler, should Joe be a name we don’t use? How about Osama? Is this a horrible thing to do to a child? Yes. But who makes the list of unacceptable names? Is there a threshold of killing that needs to be done before you make the list? Should names like Heinrich, Joseph, Hermann and Martin be illegal, they were the ones who actually figured out how to execute millions.
These people are d-bags and I would have no problem killing both of them, but I don’t think the government should start legislating what you can and cannot name your kids.
Hope that baby comes today!! Can’t wait to see the pics.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 8:28 am
Jen
But how about being an atheist or being a Hitler fan compared to the effing PHELPS family? Talk about ruining generations of people…But, as much as they scare me as fringe fundie nutcases, they are still practicing freedom of religion, y’know? Isn’t that sort of what these Campbell racist nutcases are doing more or less?
I get those German laws, and emotionally support them, because I happen to be on the side of agreeing with those laws. But actually Sam, the conversations I’ve had with people who vehemently disagree with my vaccine choices were so much more emotionally-driven, b/c those people think I’m actually risking death for my kids. So for now I can exempt from vaccines, but if there was enough push to mandate them (because enough people emotionally supported those laws), I’d become an expatriate in a heartbeat.
Everyone believes something that riles someone else up, so how do we set up parameters to measure when a belief is wrong? What’s the risk analysis for stupidity? 😆
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 8:41 am
SS
Brandi has it right, it’s harm to others.
Now, is naming your kid Hitler harming him/her? Is there proof it’s harming them worse than teaching them jews and blacks are inferrior people and should be killed? You can’t prove harm by naming a child something like Hitler. Maybe the child will embrace the name (sick) and take great pride in it (double sick), it’s possible with the parents they’ll have. Child abuse is wrong because you can prove the harm. There is also no proof that not vaxing will kill or harm your child. They may be less able to fend off Polio or the measles but NOT vaxing doesn’t give your child a desiese.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 8:55 am
Rachel
The whole thing makes me sick and I just want to swoop in and save those kids from a life of narrowminded racism and inherent suspicion of every person who doesn’t look like them.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 9:56 am
Brandi
The law about names in Germany is to protect the children from torment and harassment. And, Sam, you’d have to be real up on your history to make fun of a Francisco. And, there was only one Adolf Hitler, but thousands of Joes. I mean, come on.
This whole Hitler cake thing is even in our newspaper here today, and there’s an infobox that explains the German name law. Why don’t y’all hurry up and learn the language so I can just cut and paste it in…. OK, well, here’s a quick rundown:
German city halls (where you have to register your kid) pay attention to the welfare of the child when it comes to first names. When in doubt, parents have to go to court to try to get the name they want.
The sex of the child must be obviously through the name, otherwise the child must have a middle name, too.
Names like Ferrari and Pumuckl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumuckl) have been denied. But a father did go to court and succeed in giving his kid the name Pumuckl as a middle name.
And, I was wrong: Adolf itself as a name probably wouldn’t be prohibited here, but Adolf Hitler is a certain no go. But, the article said that German neonazis prefer to name their kids things like Siegfried or Walburga. See, the German nazis are just more subtle!
Anyway, back to what I said earlier. It’s not about letting the government decide things, it’s about protecting the kid. The welfare of the child has priority over the parents’ so-called freedom of speech. That kid will never have the chance to have a good job in a leading role or where he would be in the public eye.
And, no, Sam, you can’t prove harm in naming the child that yet. The harm comes when the kid is older. Just wait. Unless he changes his name later, he’ll be unable to do anything with his life. Well, I guess he could someday become Grand Wizard…
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 11:15 am
Jen
Hey mama bear: I’m not worried about your children being protected. I think you have that down already, heh. 😉
However, in principle, I still disagree about the govn’t having any power over what you want to name your children as far as it being couched in child welfare protection. That’s so subjective and murky. ITA naming your kid Adolf Hitler is setting him up for almost ridiculous odds against him, but that’s still in theory an assumption. I dunno, I just get skitterish thinking about blanket legislation like that. I’d rather they be flagged in the CPS system and watched like a hawk. I don’t think they are making wise parenting choices, but I’m also not completely sure they are harming the kids at this point. Especially if you want to really get into possible ‘damage’ done to kids based on religious beliefs and functioning in society.
I’m just saying, I don’t like what they are teaching them, but if they’re not being beaten and mistreated otherwise, the case can be made that it’s no worse than a fundie home or an atheist home, depending on your particular belief, kwim? Shrug.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 11:57 am
Alissa
I’d be so screwed on that sex of the child being obvious through the name. Although not as bad as another chick I know who has kids named Aidan and Sawyer.
And they’re both girls.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Jen
Yeah, Robin and Riley would probably be assumed to be the opposite, huh? I didn’t think about that aspect..
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Brandi
We’re going to have that problem, too, when our daughter finally gets her ass (and the rest or herself) out of my uterus. But like I said, as long as the middle name is clearly male or female, then it’s all good. 🙂 So, we’ve got our bases covered.
Oh, and apparently this family found a Wal-Mart that would decorate the cake for them.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Justin
Anyone think, if/when this kid goes to school, the teachers/staff will refuse to call him by his name? How about in History class when they discuss the real Hitler?
Think Child Services should investigate the parents activities to make sure the kids are not in real harms way? Being on the news like this and putting your families wrongful ways out there for all to see could cause problems. I thought this was Holland the country but now that I see it’s just some place in the South, uh… there could be some real uproar about all of this.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Jen
Right, which is why I hope they are flagged eight ways to Sunday in the system.
ETA: J just sent this update article where the parents mention ‘mixed-race’ kids being at the party.
Now I’m ALL TYPES of confused..
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Jamie
I am too late to the party to add anything remotely insightful, but the comments really made me think about both sides of this instead of just thinking (after seeing the smiling picture of the “parents”) “wow, what a couple of d-bags.”
Also, Brandi, Naziery Barn? I peed a little when I read that.
Ok, a lot 🙂
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Justin
http://www.foxnews.com/radio/alancolmes/index.html
Listen to the father’s opinion about this matter here.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 2:09 pm
misty
I’m SO late to the party – but here’s my two cents.
Ths is why its so important all of us raise tolerant children. These kids may not grow up to be racist pigs, tho it may take great strength of character for them NOT to … however – if they run across one of OUR kids, I would hope they’d be shown kindness.
Maybe the issue isn’t these kids, but those around them.
I dream of a kind kid next to my daughter someday when she is forced to explain her crazy witchy ways in front of a group of children.
(sorry for the typos, i’m typing with a child on my lap – I had to say SOMEthing!)
And thanks, Jen. For the great read and debate.
Thursday, December 18, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Brandi
Jamie, I aim to peese. Heh heh. And I think Misty’s hit the nail on the head here.